Good Car or Bad Car?

"CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever" (carsoffortlangley) 08/06/2019 at 08:54 • Filed to: None

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Last generation Monte Carlo. For various personal reasons this car has been on my mind for a while and because of that I’ve noticed a few toodling around town.

These seem to have all the Boomer stuff going on. Nascar heritage, old timey name, GM product.

Oshawa built (yuck) so Canadian Boomers really like them.

But are they actually good?

E90M3 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:00

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My dad had a Buick Regal also on the W-body, good car it was not. 

Ash78, voting early and often > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:01

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I mean, they epitomize “pointless coupe” and “random 200hp FWD car” as well as anything from the late 90s/early 2000s. They’re a little more stylish than they deserve to be. The interior is disappointing by modern standards.

Land_Yacht_225 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:01

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Counterpoint: can any car with the 3800 Supercharged truly be entirely bad?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:02

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If it's got the 3800 engine, that'll run forever. Otherwise, no.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Land_Yacht_225 08/06/2019 at 09:03

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Yeah, true. The 3.8 is a good engine. My brother in law has a Buick with one

POS first car, but still runs well

Arrivederci > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:05

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Define “good”.

Like many GM cars of that vintage, it’ll run poorly longer than most cars run. They came with the 3800 V6 which was unkillable, and also the SC 3800 in the SS models which gave it decent performance. Later years the SS came with the LS4 5.3L V8 with over 300hp and good V8 sounds. If I was looking for a modern Monte, it would be one of those, torque steer be damned.

ranwhenparked > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:08

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Neither . Like most non-truck GM products of the era, they are mediocre cars. GM really didn’t care enough to build good cars at that point.

Party-vi > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:14

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FWD V8 or GTFAC

412GTI > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:14

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I guess they’re probably not terrible, but I for one hate them. The Monte just screams white trash image to me. The Impala/Monte were just such mediocre efforts. 

Thomas Donohue > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:15

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My friend has an SS, moves pretty good.  He’s driven it fairly often for years, never seemed to have any problems.

There’s another guy in town that has the Pace Car edition.

Ssfancyfresh > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:18

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Ok car. I like the 3.8 and SC 3.8. The interior is more tolerable than its contemporaries.

I would avoid the V8. It’s kinda hacky. It’s jammed in there sort of as a last ditch effort to generate interest. At the time, GM had dev mules with a higher output sc v6 and a Turbo version that were much faster and handled better. The V8 won out, n ot because of superior performance, but rather the heritage and bragging rights of a Monte V8

benn454 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:19

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It’s ok. My brother had an ‘02 SS. The last year before they got supercharged. The 3800 was predictably rock solid. However, the transmission (4T65 IIRC), even without the blower, wasn’t really up to the task of handling the 3800's torque and had slippage and hard shifts. It did manage to hold on until he got rid at around 210,000 miles, so kudos for that, I suppose.

The interior is pretty standard for that period GM product. Hard plastic, thin leather, fantastic A/C. I adored the heated seats in the Midwest winters.

All in all, it was a perfectly cromulent DD. Mileage was pretty decent. Usually around 30 HWY, which was pretty good for a 90s-early 2000s V6.

fintail > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:27

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All the  wrong curves in all the wrong places

Milky > ranwhenparked 08/06/2019 at 09:28

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Exactly, its a car that will work for people that dont care about cars.  

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > fintail 08/06/2019 at 09:30

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Describes most Monte drivers too

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > 412GTI 08/06/2019 at 09:37

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Same. these have always seemed at least interesting looking to me, but I cannot divorce their image from the people who I imagine owning them. I assume these are always perpetually on their way to the reserve to buy the cheapest cigarettes possible anywhere, fitted with tweety- bird floor mats,   their interior having never been cleaned and thick with small- dog hair.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:41

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Real talk - the monte carlo is a highway superstar and gets 30+ mpg at 70mph. As a tall guy, I loved my old one and my mom’s SS was nice too. Legro om for DAYS.

Hate on it all you want, but it doesn’t change that they were decent cars that added some fun and style in an era where the coupes were dying out.

....Also I autocrossed mine and it was way better than it had any right to be.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:41

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Some folks down the road have a limited edition model in bright yellow....maybe an SS or something? I don’t know a lot about them, but our family owned a few 90s GM products.....not a fan.

412GTI > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/06/2019 at 09:42

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Perfect description. 

Chuckles > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 08/06/2019 at 09:51

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I always thought that it would make a nice highway cruiser for a long road trip.

Wacko > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 09:52

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buy it and El-MontéCarlo it

HammerheadFistpunch > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 10:01

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I’m with 422gti. the image is all kinds of wrong for me. but I’m sure like anything gm from then it will run a long time, just not be good in any way doing it.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 10:07

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Like just about every other car from an American manufacturer of that era, they’re only good if you’ve never driven just about anything Asia or Europe produced within the last 30 years or so.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Arrivederci 08/06/2019 at 10:07

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If I had to have one, I’d have that one. That face lift looks much better too 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 10:10

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In 2002 (7th grade)  or so I drew an El Camino version. I’m still disappointed that never happened

SaigaShooter - He's got an Impreza > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 10:14

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I owned one of these from 2008 to 2018.

Mine was in deep laser blue with a black leather interior. it was also presumably assembled at 4:30 on a friday afternoon.

That thing hit 100K miles and everything started going wrong.. Rear defrost relay melted into the fuse block, had to replace the entire fuse block. HVAC blower motors would go out every 18 months like clock work regardless of which brand I replaced it with. B urned oil pretty aggressivley toward the end, and also leaked it from the m anifol d gaskets . Speaking of those gaskets, they were replaced twice, and the valve cover gaskets once. H eat was intermittent in the winter, thankfully the seats were heated, because that really sucks when it’ s -30 o utside. Interior lights were spotty, gave up on replac ing them and just dealt with unlighted HVAC controls and not being able to see the speedo when the needle dipped below 40 MPH. Speedo stepper motor was replaced after it got stuck at 70 miles per hour. It slso developed a unique problem where in heavy rains the headlisght would turn off and the hvac blower would turn off. Around 125K miles the transmission decided that gear ch a nges going up- hill should be very slow, it was fun climbing steep grades a gear higher than necessary. it also seemed to do that getting on the highway at random. When parked and turned off for a few minutes, like when you would fuel up, it wouldn’t always start on the first attempt. Same thing if you had been driving, ran into astore for a couple minutes to grab a bite to eat and then started the car again. The exhaust pretty much rusted off at 140K miles, though thats more a fault of the salty winter roads than anythings.

Despite the problems, it was a very comfortable car and soaked up highway miles like a champ, economy was acceptable, and the color looked awesome, I really wish GM used it more. Body wise, it looks like it was designed by 2 different comittiee s, one for the front, another for the back and then they just grafted the sides on. It’s certainly a love it or leave it design.

QCGoose > Arrivederci 08/06/2019 at 10:30

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Biggest mechanical issue is the transmission in those is made of glass. I imagine that's the primary reason why they're so cheap on the used market.

Under_Score > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 10:38

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What’s wrong with Oshawa? It can’t be any worse than the corrupt UAW plants here.

Urambo Tauro > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 10:46

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I still haven’t forgiven GM for putting the Monte Carlo name on a FWD car.

i86hotdogs > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 11:05

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Only acceptable in three trims:

Jeff Gordon Edition

Indimidator Edition

Dale Jr. Edition

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 11:10

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Depends. Cheap AF  to run, sofa seat like a lazy boy and great mileage while doing 75, soaking up highway miles like nothing but else. Around town or twisties not that good.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 11:13

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My first car was a 98 Grand Prix GT, which is it’s W-Body stable mate. (As an aside, anyone else miss the simple letter chassis codes?). It was a decent handler, and a superb highway cruiser. It really was just a great, comfy car, and had loads of trunk space.  The non-SC 3800 isn’t going to win any races but it’s a cockroach of an engine that will live on well past many fancier units. 

Speed > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 11:51

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After spinning a rod bearing whilst heading home from work in my ‘98 Z28, I borrowed an ‘04 Park Avenue for a couple weeks while I searched for a new engine or another daily. It was the antithesis of everything I like about cars, however, I grew to love it for daily duties and said if I found one for sale that I’d buy it.

This ‘93 Regal Gran Sport popped up on my road for sale a few days later. One owner, low miles, all service history and even the original window sticker. It was the classic “little old lady” story. The car was immaculate.

A test drive convinced me to pick it up for work duty. My commute is about 50 minutes one way so economy, comfort, stealth and reliability were all boxes the old Buick checked off with flying colors. In addition, there’s character here that you don’t get in a contemporary Accord or Camry.

The biggest surprise was the handling. Kentucky is full of some of the countries best back roads. Ride and handling wise, it reminds me of my ‘95 E34. The steering is much better though. It doesn’t have that dead spot on center. It’s almost as good as the steering in my Camaro. It’s weight ed more on the heavy side, provides plenty feedback, returns to center well and has no play.

Engineers actually put some thought into the suspension on these. It has the FE3 package and those tires are wide (for the time) 225/16's. The front is Macpherson strut and the rear is independent with a transverse leaf spring almost exactly like a Corvette. I think with a few poly bits, good shocks and a more modern wheel and tire set up on this platform would flat out surprise people. It’s already impressive for what it is.

The weak point would be the brakes. I upgraded the pads and rotors, but they’re the worst binders I’ve ever dealt with. My ‘80 Firebird with drums out back stopped twice as hard as this thing does. The next step is high temp fluid, a proportioning valve and maybe stainless lines to see if it remedies the issue. Four wheel discs should stop better than these do.

I’ve racked up about 30k miles since last October and it hasn’t skipped a beat. All I’ve done is maintenance and wear items like fluid, tires and brakes. I expect the 3800 to soldier on until Armageddon, but once I get the Camaro back up and locomoting I may put this one under the knife and do a Getrag 5spd swap. Down the road I’d consider an L67 Supercharged swap as well, but can’t go tossing this engine out when it runs so good.

I can’t speak for the more modern W Bodies, but these old ones are cool. C’mon RADWOOD!

Appropriate Plate

Check out that chassis rigidity!

Sovande > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 12:18

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Almost comically ugly.

shop-teacher > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 12:27

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I think the real answer is yes and yes, for all the reasons already listed in other comments 

Captain of the Enterprise > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 08/06/2019 at 13:05

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Isn’t this the last iteration?

My Aunt has the impala from that time and it moved with the 3.6 v6 it had. I didn’t fit in it though with the headroom but I’m 6’3” and it had the sunroof. She did sell it eventually because the transmission started to go.